Record of Discussions and Decisions

1.1 Opening remarks (Crystal Warner and Gail Johnson):

Crystal Warner opened the meeting by welcoming all Committee members. She expressed her eagerness to collaborate with members in her new role as Co-Chair for the HRUMCC. She extended a special welcome to Kevin King to his first HRUMCC in his role as the newly elected UNE National President.

Gail Johnson welcomed Crystal Warner in her new role and noted how much she appreciates Crystal’s enthusiasm and desire for meaningful engagement. She also welcomed Catherine Adam, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, as a new member replacing Jacques Paquette who retired in June 2017.

Members proceeded with a round table to introduce themselves.

1.2 Approval of minutes for meeting of March 27, 2017 (Crystal Warner):

Crystal Warner discussed the practice of adding new agenda items at meetings. She noted that in order to provide members and presenters with enough time to gather information to appropriately and thoughtfully respond to issues, items should be provided within the deadlines outlined in the multiple call-outs for agenda items.

She further reminded everyone that the Co-Chairs approve the agenda several weeks in advance and the approved version is also provided to participants ahead of time. Members agreed that the agenda is most often very full and time can run short to address the items that are already on the approved agenda.

She also acknowledged that, at times, urgent and unforeseen issues can arise and proposed that only items of this nature should be added the day of meetings and the Co-Chairs will do their very best to accommodate the request if time permits. She stated that less pressing items can be addressed at future meetings or that, alternatively, ad-hoc meetings can be organized where warranted.

Jim McDonald stated that UNE would like to be able to put forward new agenda items the day of the meeting to ensure that their members can see that their issues are being brought forward.

Crystal Warner thanked Jim and mentioned that the roundtable is another opportunity to bring these items forward.

Members agreed with the approach of only adding urgent items if necessary on the day of the meetings.

Crystal Warner then moved on to the approval of the minutes of the March 27, 2017 meeting. She noted that the draft minutes were sent to all members in May and revisions were made based on comments received. The revised version was sent to members on August 2, 2017 and no further comments were received.

Members approved the minutes of the March 27, 2017 meeting.

1.3 Status of Outstanding Action Items (Crystal Warner):

Crystal Warner explained that the Secretariat works with members and stakeholders to ensure that any action items raised during the course of the meeting are addressed. She noted that, going forward, to make the best use of the limited time, at the beginning of each meeting only the items that are still outstanding will be discussed.

She went on to note that a total of nine (9) action items emerged from the HRUMCC meeting held on March 27, 2017 and that the full list, showing all items as having been completed, had been shared with everyone in advance of today`s meeting for any comments or corrections.

She noted that feedback had been received on two (2) items as outlined below:

• Regarding item 1.2 (Agenda), Rose Touhey had shared thoughts from a UNE perspective and agreed that the name of the union who requested a specific agenda item should be clearly indicated on the agenda. She clarified that noting the individual’s name is not necessary.
• Regarding item 4.1 (Passport Harmonization), Rose Touhey, on behalf of UNE, wanted to ensure that there would be consistency in information shared related to Passport Harmonization and that going forward, there would be a forum for sharing general common issues with both CEIU and UNE. It was confirmed that this issue has been placed on the HRUMCC agenda as a standing item going forward to serve this purpose. Rose also asked if the Record of Discussion of the July 4, 2017 meeting could be shared. It was provided to her.

Related to item 4.1, Jim McDonald noted that, in some instances, Passport issues arise that have no ties to CEIU and that since UNE is the sole bargaining agent, there would be no need to have both unions present for these meetings.

Crystal Warner asked if all members agreed that all action items are considered closed. Members agreed.

 

2.1 Update on Diversity and Employment Equity Plan (Rawan El-Komos)

Rawan El-Komos provided an update on key gaps in workforce representation for the four employment equity groups: women, visible minorities, aboriginal peoples and persons with disabilities. She presented the data available as of July 1, 2017. She then addressed the strategies the Department is undertaking to meet its employment equity goals through the Diversity and Employment Equity Action Plan. One key strategy is to run targeted processes where gaps exist.

Key accomplishments to date were outlined along with the next steps for the second quarter of fiscal year 2017-2018. Of particular interest to members were the Positive Space Initiative and the launch of the online diversity training that is mandatory for managers and employees. Ms. El-Komos highlighted that employment equity initiatives have the full support of the organization from the top down and that they continue to look at ways to expand the conversation. She noted that it goes beyond the four identified employment equity groups and that they will also be looking at Public Services and Procurement Canada’s transgender policy.

Sebastian Rodrigues asked if the action plans to address employment equity issues could be shared. He noted that regional diversity committees are being established and that it might be a good idea to communicate the members’ names and links to committee minutes for employees to share their thoughts so that these committees can be more progressive in doing their work. He also noted that there may be cases where employees are not comfortable talking to the Employer. He added that training for managers and team leaders is important and is more meaningful when they understand the impact they have in this area.

Rawan El-Komos confirmed that there is an action plan in place for the Indigenous file. She offered to share key pieces with members. She also noted that there is currently information online related to the Diversity Committee and committed to sharing the national Terms of Reference with members.

2.2 Use of Talent Management for Staffing Purposes (Rawan El-Komos)

Rawan El-Komos provided members with a comprehensive overview of how the Department integrates performance and talent management into staffing and workforce planning activities. She noted that, as part of the departmental Staffing Policy and Guidance Framework, a guidance document for hiring managers was developed on the use of performance and talent management in the context of staffing. She added that, to ensure consistency in the application, any appointments made on the basis of talent management must be reviewed by the respective branch Workforce Management Committee (WMC). She provided a summary of the statistics related to talent management appointments and highlighted that, generally, talent management is not the only reason for staffing decisions and that other contributing factors such as operational needs and business context are taken into consideration. She noted that HRSB is continuing to develop tools, advice and guidance to more clearly enable the use of talent management from a staffing perspective.

Fabienne Jean-François noted that many employees feel that ever since Work Force Adjustment (WFA) occurred, they can’t progress in their careers. She expressed her concern that, with respect to performance evaluations, employees don’t have the possibility of changing the rating and that they can only add a note to say that they don’t agree. She stated that, for employees who may have had a difficult year due to personal issues, a less favourable rating can impact career opportunities.

Rawan El-Komos reassured members that talent management is typically not the sole assessment tool used to evaluate candidates but one part of the assessment package.

Gail Johnson highlighted that she is encouraging ADMs to communicate their staffing plans to employees and to explain how they plan to use talent management. She noted that doing this will give employees the parameters that are being used. She raised that the Public Affairs and Stakeholders Relations Branch recently did this and that it was well received. She added that all employees would benefit from this approach.

Jim McDonald raised the issue of seniority and how it has a different meaning for unions. He noted that the requirement for “Recent” experience eliminates people that have worked for the department for a long time. He went on to say that it is very difficult to challenge comments on employee performance reviews and that some, not all, managers use performance reviews to retaliate against some employees who are outspoken. He noted that unions have some reservations about using performance reviews as criteria for hiring, given that it isn’t known if the comments are objective. He echoed Fabienne Jean-François’ comment that, once written, employees have no way to counteract what’s been stated. He added that managers should be trained on how to develop objective employee performance reviews.

1. Ms. El-Komos will provide members with the following via the Secretariat:

• DEEAP Action plan for Indigenous component
• ToR for the National Steering Committee for Diversity and Employment Equity @ESDC
• Draft ToR for the ESDC Employees with Disabilities Network
• ToR for the Department’s Indigenous Employees’ Circle
• List of representatives on ESDC’s interim Pride Network Steering Committee

2. Ms. El-Komos will provide members with the following via the Secretariat:

• Review of non-advertised appointments
• Review of use of “recent experience” and education.

3.1 Update on the Phoenix Pay System (David Swol)

David Swol provided Committee members with an update on the continuing progress and challenges related to Phoenix. He noted that in the new “HR to Pay” governance structure that has been established, ESDC is represented at the DM, ADM and DG tables. He added that he and Jennifer Hamilton had just attended a two-day DG workshop (Sept 11-12th) to identify priority areas of work in the development of an HR to Pay work plan with the goal of bringing resolution to the issues being encountered. He also noted that he and Jennifer had spent hours being interviewed for the Office of the Attorney General (OAG) report and that there is a focused, government-wide approach being taken to tackle the problem.

As part of this, Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) is conducting a root cause analysis of Phoenix Systems issues and we have a full-time dedicated resource representing ESDC on this working group.

He went on to note that the implementation of Collective Agreements is the focus at the Pay Centre now that the agreements are signed (with specific timeframes that need to be respected). It is important and positive that this is getting done, but there is obviously a considerable impact on their ability to resolve other outstanding pay issues. He highlighted that, based on PSPC data; the number of open cases over 30 days old has risen significantly to almost 49,000 cases. Approximately 74% of ESDC employees have one or more cases that have been open over 30 days.

He reported that, at the beginning of August, the Department created a team of ten (10) compensation advisors in Winnipeg dedicated to ESDC files. These ten are experienced Compensation Advisors. He also noted that ESDC already had a liaison team of 20 employees and that the new team is co-located with the PSPC office. He was pleased to report that, while it is still early, we have seen immediate progress. To date, 208 cases have been assigned to the new team and 41% have been resolved.

Mr. Swol went on to provide more statistics on the progress being made. The key points were:

• As of September 8th, we have escalated 3707 cases with an overall resolution rate of 34%. This number of escalated cases represents an 85% increase since the last update in March (March: 2007 cases; resolution rate was 38%).
• Our colleagues in CFOB have issued 5,157 ESAs/Priority payments totaling over $7.4M.
• We have received 322 grievances at final level (221 in March), of which 46 have had their pay issues resolved and grievances withdrawn. (3 grievances allowed and 6 partially allowed).
• A total of 146 claims against the crown have been received (for a total of $135,899). Of these, 94 claims have been paid (for a total of $20,494), 37 of which were claims over $500 that were sent to TBS for review (for a total of $116,857).

Following Mr. Swol’s presentation, Steven Risseeuw asked for confirmation regarding whether the ten (10) new Compensation Advisors were in addition to the twenty (20) Liaison Officers. Mr. Swol confirmed that there are in fact now thirty (30) employees in total. He further explained that the Liaison Officers act as conduits between employees and the PSPC and that the ten (10) new Compensation Advisors have access to process transactions in Phoenix. He noted that there are some cases we are unable to repatriate from PSPC so we are looking at those cases where we feel our new advisors can be most effective.

Kevin King commented that the Phoenix problem is very serious and that we now have fewer (1/10 of the previous complement of staff) and less experienced advisors to manage complex issues. He noted that the amount of unresolved cases is approaching one (1) million and that it is simply not enough to throw money at the problem.

David Swol acknowledged the gravity of the situation and assured members that the Department continues to make great efforts to resolve employees’ Phoenix issues.

Gail Johnson stated that the Deputy Minister and all of senior management are very seized with this and that, while many things aren’t within the Department’s control, we are doing everything we can that is within our power and will continue to work tirelessly to do so. She noted that we have employees all around us impacted by this - even the ones who are working on fixing it.

David Swol echoed Ms. Johnson’s concerns for employees and cautioned that, while Emergency Salary Advances (ESAs) and priority payments can provide some relief in certain cases, they can also potentially have downstream impacts. He noted that there are issues around being informed about when the money will be recovered and that getting an unexpected “zero paycheque” can start a whole new cycle of problems.

Douglas Hagar noted that putting the new Compensation team in place is a small but positive step. With respect to David Swol’s statement that 208 cases had been allocated to the team in August, Mr. Hagar asked if there is a target number of cases they are expecting to address per month and if there are any plans for expanding team in the future if needed.

David Swol explained that, at this stage, it would be difficult to establish targets given the individual complexity of each file and noting that it can take two days to close some of the more complicated ones. He also noted that not all advisors have the full breadth and access to the system. He said that they are being assigned the files that are causing the most hardship for employees with a focus on getting them help as soon as possible

Fabienne Jean-François raised the issue of overtime payments not being made due to the system problems and asked where this issue stands. David Swol responded by stating that while there is a dollar threshold we continue to review situations on a case-by-case basis. He acknowledged that not being paid in a timely fashion for overtime worked can certainly be a pain point for some employees, but that it’s hard to determine at what point a pain point becomes financial hardship. He noted that similar concerns have been expressed related to delays in processing acting assignments. He commented that the actions required to process these assignments are very complex and time-consuming and that the process needs to be re-designed.

Jim McDonald said that he appreciates the reality of the situation and noted that more communication up front may be more soothing to employees. He noted that managers should be advising employees who are starting a new acting or job that pay will be delayed. He indicated that he doesn’t see this level of communication happening at the local level. He added that management should be telling employees to maintain their records to ensure things are reconciled.

Mr. McDonald asked if the composition of the HR to Pay working group included any employees or bargaining agents. David Swol responded that employees are not part of the group but that it’s his understanding that Bargaining Agents have been involved through TBS’s Union Management Consultation Committees. He went on to add that, at the working group, he had raised his concerns about how we are still working with 34 HR systems across government and that it is critical to look at how issues integrate into multiple systems. He also agreed that we can certainly encourage managers to communicate these messages and asked that bargaining agents also communicate at the regional levels. He noted that there seems to be a disconnect in some parts of the country with respect to what is/isn’t a priority given the size and seriousness of the issue.

Jim McDonald noted that the reality of the union membership is that they are just tired of facing these issues. He stated that Phoenix should be scrapped and that it was irresponsible of the Government of Canada to get rid of old system while implementing new one. He added that the Employer has had years to resolve this situation and that there a great number of corporations that exist who could work on this. He questioned why the government doesn’t go to Canada Post to see why their system is working. He concluded by noting that frustration from members is coming out and that a permanent fix is needed instead of just reacting.

Kevin King reiterated that the situation is serious and acknowledged the steps ESDC is taking to assist employees. He noted that he was grateful to be part of the Committee and to be able to discuss these matters.

Yvonne Snaddon addressed Gail Johnson and David Swol to thank ESDC for everything they are doing for employees with issues and for keeping an eye on employees in this day where mental health is so important.

3.2 Passport Harmonization Update (Evelyne Power and Steven Risseeuw)

Stephen Risseeuw began his update on Passport Harmonization by stating that Service Canada works with two (2) components of PSAC, those being CEIU and UNE. He remarked that it is difficult for management to determine and decide which presentations and meetings will touch both components. He noted that management respects the jurisdiction of the different components and that, for future meetings, both components will be invited and can decide amongst themselves who will attend.

Evelyne Power provided members with the dates of the various meetings that had recently occurred between Service Canada management and bargaining agents. She noted that at the July 4 and June 12 meetings a number of operational issues were discussed including changes to the Collective Agreement. She added that a meeting had also taken place with UNE and Peter Simeoni on July 11. She added that the August 14 meeting had already been discussed when members were reviewing the action items and that the minutes had been shared with the bargaining agents.

Jim McDonald noted that there are some Passport issues that impact only UNE and that CEIU would not need to attend in those circumstances. He then noted that UNE has been asking for years if the Employer is planning on amalgamating functions to create “super-agents”. He said that the answer received was “no”, but that it looks like that is what’s happening. He went on to add that, if service lines are to remain independent of one another, it’s not hard to meet separately.

Evelyne Power noted that there will always be a role for an end-to-end passport officer and offered that a good example of this is “weekend duty”. She noted that there is some opportunity for overlap of functions but confirmed that there is no plan to create a “super-agent”.

Evelyne Power noted that there have been a number of changes to weekend duty. She said that while we previously had one (1) staff member provide service, we now make sure that there are two (2) staff members (one (1) fully trained , and one (1) to facilitate and for health and safety reasons). She said that they continue to look at the types of services that are required in those periods.

Jim McDonald asked if the issue of weekend duty could be brought to the next official meeting with Service Canada management to look at stats and possibilities to use time. He noted that employees used to have weekend duty once every six (6) or seven (7) weeks, but that now they have to do it every three (3) weeks because of the requirement to have two (2) staff members on site. He noted that having statistics for weekend operations could help in developing ways to manage counters.

3.3 Update on Term Rollover (Rawan El-Komos)

Due to a need to shift the agenda and because of time constraints, it was determined that this item would be deferred. As the material had been provided in advance, members were encouraged to submit any questions to the Secretariat.

3.4 Application of Leave with Income Averaging (Jennifer Hamilton)

Due to a need to shift the agenda and because of time constraints, it was determined that a separate meeting with CEIU would be organized to discuss this item.

3.5 Public Service Employee Annual Survey (PSEAS) (Julie Simard)

Due to a need to shift the agenda and because of time constraints, it was determined that this item would be deferred. As the material had been provided in advance, members were encouraged to submit any questions to the Secretariat.

3.6 Budget 2017 Updates (Catherine Adam)

Catherine Adam provided members with a presentation on the implementation of Budget 2017. She noted that the budget, titled “Building a Strong Middle Class”, was tabled on March 22, 2017.She explained that the investments pertaining to ESDC would benefit children, youth and lifelong learners, families and workers, and seniors. Further, she stated that for ESDC initiatives including Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) and homelessness, there will be total investments of over $459 million in 2017-2018 and an additional $9.4 billion over five years. She then provided an overview of the various initiatives underway related to “Social Infrastructure” and “Skills and Training”.

Catherine Adam will be presenting Budget updates at future HRUMCC meetings to discuss any HR impacts. Frequency will be determined by members and adjusted as necessary.

3.7 Canada Labour Code Modernization Updates (Gary Robertson)

Gary Robertson delivered a presentation on Modernizing the Canada Labour Code including providing an overview of new compliance and enforcement tools and the measures that will be taken to ensure successful implementation. He noted the following key initiatives that were announced in Budget 2017 with respect to modernization of the Code:

• Enhancing flexibility for employees in the federal private sector
• Limiting unpaid internships in the federal private sector
• Strengthening and modernizing compliance and enforcement provisions

He noted that there have been long-standing concerns about the lack of effective measures in Parts II and III of the Code to discourage non-compliance (particularly from repeat offenders). To address this, new tools will be added to the Code including provisions which will allow for administrative monetary penalties (fines) and public naming of employees who have committed an offence or violation. He added that successful implementation of the new compliance and enforcement measures will require considerable work along with a significant investment of policy and program resources. The measures are expected to be fully implemented by December 2019.

He added that a Treasury Board Submission has been prepared to access the new funding identified in Budget 2017 and that funds received would be used primarily to hire additional staff in NHQ and the Regions to implement, administer and monitor the new compliance and enforcement measures.

Following the presentation, Rose Touhey shared comments on Kevin King’s behalf stating that “it is hoped that Occupational Health and Safety Officers be entrenched back in the Canada Labour Code, Part II, not just "delegates" of the Minister who have no independent statute authority. Until that happens, no employee subject to the CLC will ever again have an expectation that their accident, complaint or refusal to work will be investigated in an independent, objective manner. In the absence of doing so, the CLC, Part II remains a "paper tiger", an infringement on the health and safety rights of all federally regulated employees”.

Gary Robertson noted that he has seen a lot of positive changes since he began discussing issues with employees when he joined the Labour Program two years ago. While many did not feel supported by the organization at that time, he observed that employees now report that things have very much improved and that they are happy with the changes.

3. Evelyne Power will add “weekend duty” to the agenda for the next meeting with UNE.

4. Jennifer Hamilton will organize a meeting with CEIU to discuss the application of LWIA

5. Ms. Adam’s presentation will be sent to members immediately following the meeting (completed)

6. Budget 2017 (HR impacts) will be added to the agenda for the next HRUMCC

4.1 Round Table

To save time, instead of canvassing members one-by-one for round table items, Crystal Warner offered to give the floor to any members who had an item to raise.

Jim McDonald thanked management for providing detailed statistics on term rollovers broken down by region following the last HRUMCC.

Sebastian Rodrigues thanked Rawan El-Komos for her update on the Diversity and Employment Equity Action Plan (DEEAP) and asked if the Committee would consider adding DEEAP as a standing item. Crystal Warner responded that the Co-Chairs will definitely consider it.

Crystal Warner commented that she was very pleased with the progress being made on the Call Centre Committee noting that “this is what true consultation looks like” and encouraged everyone to keep up the good work.

David Swol proceeded to thank all of the Committee members for their participation as well as the Secretariat for their work in organizing the meeting

5.2 Closing remarks

Crystal Warner thanked the presenters for sharing valuable information. She noted that their contributions are what make this a successful forum for important discussions.

She went on to say the she was very pleased to see a full agenda and encouraged members to continue to provide the Secretariat with agenda items to support the planning of future meetings and to ensure that everyone’s interests are being addressed.

She then invited Gail Johnson to provide any closing remarks she might wish to share.

Gail Johnson echoed Crystal Warner’s thoughts on how fortunate we are to have so many knowledgeable presenters. She acknowledged that a lot of effort goes into preparing presentation and updates and expressed her appreciation on behalf of all members. She closed by thanking members for their continued participation and commitment to working collaboratively.

Crystal Warner adjourned the meeting.

7. DEEAP update will be added as a standing item for HRUMCC meetings.