Record of Discussions and Decisions

1.1 Opening remarks (Crystal Warner and Gail Johnson):

Crystal Warner and Gail Johnson welcomed members and guests to the meeting.

Sebastian Rodrigues requested that the Employment Equity and Diversity item be moved up on the agenda. The item was moved up to 3.1.

Gail Johnson mentioned that she would like to discuss one item after the approval of last meeting’s minutes.

1.2 Approval of Minutes for Meeting of January 22, 2018 (Crystal Warner):

The minutes were approved subject to Mr. McDonald’s title being corrected to Officer.

1.3 Status of Outstanding Action Items January 22, 2018 (Crystal Warner):

Crystal Warner indicated that from the nine (9) action items identified at the last meeting, only two (2) were outstanding.

One of the outstanding items concerns the number of job content and classification grievances and the potential for setting up a committee to look into this matter. Annick Langlois committed to explore this option. Although she has since left the department, the HRSB functional leads are exploring options and will keep HRUMCC committee members apprised.

The other outstanding item is in regards to the Examination of Leave requests (SH art. 17.16) that were denied. Guy Cyr has recently requested Dean Corda’s availability to discuss. Crystal Warner asked if an update could be provided. Stan Buday clarified that this was in regards to leave under the Institute’s Balancing Union and Family Life Policy, not examination of leave. He expressed his profound disappointed with the decision taken to deny the request that was made and would like it to be recorded in the minutes.

Proposed changes to two (2) out of four (4) HRUMCC Meetings (Gail Johnson)

Gail Johnson proposed making two (2) out of four (4) HRUMCC meetings per year, business line specific. This forum is important and they don’t always have the right people at the table when business line specific HR matters are raised. Having two (2) meetings specific to business line issues would ensure the proper Assistant Deputy Ministers (ADMs) are invited as many items on this agenda are business specific.

Cliff Groen added context by explaining that this proposal stems from various meetings with Stan Buday to discuss CPP disability. He referred to today’s agenda as an example as we have EI, CPP OAS work performance and these were all part of the discussion with Stan Buday where the Regional ADMs participated. These topics are business line specific but national in scope.

Jim McDonald expressed that he did not agree with this proposal. He indicated that having more ADMs would not be appropriate and we don’t want to block consultation. He suggested that members come prepared to the meetings or perhaps set up an offline committee. He indicated that ESDC has an awkward structure for governance as the authority is at the regional level not national.

Fabienne Jean-François indicated that this is more of a governance issue. It is ESDC who has chosen this governance model and given the authority to Regional ADMs. As National Vice-Presidents (NVP), they have the right to lobby at all levels (local, DG, ADM and then HRUMCC). She said that the efficiency of this table should be reviewed and that two (2) hours is not sufficient. She indicated that it is not pertinent to have ADMs at this table and asked if their forums were effective?

Stan Buday advised the committee that they have a table within IITB. That it is what PIPSC is looking for and it is part of the escalation process.

Cliff Groen explained that management heard on several occasions in the past that there is no forum for specific business line issues. We often hear that there are inconsistencies between regions. We are a large department, regions are different and some unions asked for an on-going forum like the one with Stan Buday, that touches all regions and business lines.

Fabienne Jean-François indicated that the committee is for HR issues not only business lines and budget. It's about employees. She asked what would be the interim measures if the members agreed to have two (2) meetings a year with a large gap in between meetings. Fabienne Jean-François indicated that the appropriate people need to be invited.

Jim McDonald agreed that we do not want to delay issues and members deserve timely action. He indicated that the length of the meeting should be driven by the agenda. If we need three (3) hours instead of two (2), we should do it. He also indicated that he would not want to see the committee inundated with more people and that there should be a balance between union members and management. He reiterated that the employer made a choice in their structure and they should not force the committee members to change. Have the appropriate people at the table when necessary. He indicated as an example, if the issue is for Toronto; ensure Mary Ann Triggs attends the meeting.

1. Sebastien Rodriguez requested that Employment Equity and Diversity be moved earlier in the agenda, as a standing item.

2.1 The monitoring of CPP-OAS work/performance which differs from region to region (Crystal Warner)

Crystal Warner mentioned that information for the next four (4) items had been provided to the employer. She indicated that they reached out to their members about their concerns and members are telling them about inequitable performance reviews. For example, exempt time is being reported differently which is affecting their performance ratings. Members also brought up non-compatible reports, appearing in the West, items that do not count in the system, doing a lot of work but not being recognized. She mentioned that CPP-OAS members would like more national alignment, more consistency in the training and calibration. She requested feedback and answers on the calibration.

Cliff Groen agreed to follow up with Crystal Warner to better understand the unions’ question and to provide response to union once he has reviewed the information they provided.

Dominic Gonthier confirmed that they developed the training and that regions are working with national counterparts, therefore the training should be consistently delivered

Fabienne Jean-François indicated that it is always different in the regions and gave Old Age Security as an example.

Cliff Groen mentioned that many updates had been provided in the past eighteen (18) months, including during the last National Labour Management Consultation Committee (NLMCC) in October 2017. He reiterated that he wants to address their preoccupations and once he has the document he can do the research and obtain more details of what is going on in the regions.

2.2 Usage of overtime in Employment Insurance (EI) processing (Crystal Warner)

Crystal Warner indicated that there is a lot of overtime occurring and asked why there is not more recruitment being done? She noted that the amount of overtime is affecting overall morale and has an impact on people’s health. She indicated that this chronic understaffing is national in scope.

Cliff Groen confirmed that 10% of salary cost is associated to overtime and that the volume of EI requests is cyclical. He also confirmed that management is aware of this issue and are looking into it.

Gail Johnson mentioned they are looking at HR strategies to increase retention.

Eddy Bourque asked if management had any thoughts on expanding the hubs outside larger cities.

Cliff Groen indicated that processing centres in larger cities are not necessarily ideal since there is more competition with other departments and there are higher rates of turnover. They are not actively looking at this option right now but it may be reviewed in the future.

2.3 Understaffing in Service Canada Centres (SCCs) (Crystal Warner)

Crystal Warner indicated that understaffing is having an impact on employees. Some employees are stressed; some are coming in sick because they feel bad missing a day and there is pressure to travel more to cover other offices. There are work life balance issues. She asked what is an appropriate staffing level and is the formula the issue.

Evelyne Power explained that SCCs are resourced to ensure coverage based on minimum staff requirements for health and safety and volume of clients. All SCCs have a minimum threshold below which they cannot fall in order to serve clients and management is expected to apply the collective agreement in ensuring leave is available across the service area managed. This requires vigilance and careful planning and if there are areas of chronic challenges then we’d welcome the opportunity to follow up on those. In regards to travel, SCCs are managed in clusters and some sites provide backup to others to ensure client service and the ability to take leave, undertake training, etc.

Eddy Bourque mentioned that there is a minimum of two (2) employees per centre for health and safety reasons.

Evelyne Power confirmed that at any time, there always has to be two (2) employees. The last Resource Determination Model (RDM) was 2.5 per office. This is based on location and client volume.

Fabienne Jean-François indicated that all regions talk about this issue. She asked what the resource determination model was and if it was possible to see it. She would like to see the information with the ratio and all the data. She would like to know why one office has more and another less. She indicated that not seeing this creates friction and the perception of hiding things. She stated that if the budget is the issue, they can support in lobbying for this. Currently, they feel that they do not know what is at stake. Many employees take sick leave. She has been talking about this since 2010.

Evelyne Power reiterated that volumes differ from region to region. That she is familiar with the regional and local service delivery and would arrange a walk through with union representatives.

Jim McDonald reminded the members that Passport employees are represented by UNE. He indicated that he has had this conversation several times with this Department and wanted to remind everyone that the Collective Agreement was negotiated in good faith. The employer is obligated to staff offices to meet those obligations and ensure employees are able to take leave. They have been talking about mental health in several meetings as Fabienne Jean-François stated, the causes have to be addressed. He also sought clarification in regards to what are reasonable expectations regarding what an employee can accomplish in one day.

2.4 How to approach mental health in the workplace (Crystal Warner)

Crystal Warner expressed concerns that managers are not getting the training or resources on how to deal with wellness and mental health issues. NVPs reported that Duty to Accommodate (DTA) cases are sensitive and they do not feel that the training and resources are making their way down to the team leaders who are closest to the issues. She referred to telework as an example since these requests need ADM approval. She asked what is being provided to management around DTA and wellness in the workplace to help de-escalate.

Penny Lavigne confirmed that we do have a framework on mental health with a three (3) year action plan, ending May 2018. She also confirmed that there is training but did not have statistics on who had taken the training. She mentioned that bargaining agents are on the committee that is discussing the plan for the next three (3) years. The initial action plan focussed on awareness and you will see that the new action plan will focus on getting at specific issues at an organizational/system level. She acknowledged that DTA for mental health and invisible disabilities can be complex and they are trying to give managers more tools, but HR advisors are not experts in the domain. For example, there is a pilot project under way in which managers have access to clinical experts. There is training on DTA at the Canada School of Public Service and we also provide in-house training. As other examples, she mentioned the workplace mental health Peer-to-Peer Program and Manager-to-Manager Program will be launched this Spring. They are putting new supports in place and will be tracking and evaluating the results. She mentioned that she has also been speaking to ADMs on DTA challenges. She encouraged suggestions on what more can be done in the next year.

Rose Touhey requested more information in regards to the Mental Health Committee and bargaining agents assisting. She brought up the fact that there are lots of challenges for managers and support, but what about employees. She asked what type of support exists for the employees as they often do not have time to read emails.

Penny Lavigne confirmed that they went to NLMCC to request union representative names for the Mental Health Implementation Committee and that Lyne Cartier and Sara Filbee are the Co-chairs. She also noted that the Employee Assistance Program (EAP) is there to help employees. Additionally, there were several sessions held in regions on various topics like resilience, self-care, as well as a suite of learning.

Rose Touhey communicated that once budgets are decided, if mental health is important, it should be factored into the budget. Employees should be able to leave for work assignments and not be unable to go because there is not enough staff to cover.

Fabienne Jean-François indicated that she was happy to hear that the upcoming action plan would be looked at from an organisational perspective. She is more interested in the employer working with her to reduce her stress rather than being told to drink more water and take walks. She noted that the constant rotation of team leaders does not help and the constant provision of statistics also creates stress. The budget should support mental health. She indicated being aware of this information as a representative, but not as an employee. Nothing seems to come out from the mental health committee, no reports. She has not yet felt any organizational change. There is no promotion or little on the ground.

Jim McDonald expressed that he was happy to hear that the department is using clinical experts, but cautioned that managers have to listen to what they say. He mentioned those prognoses are often being challenged. Rather than support the employee, the department gives them options. He asked to not send those option letters and to give the employees time. Managers are sending those forms earlier to resolve the issue within the 24 months, for example. He mentioned that he did not recall the NLMCC where members were invited to join the mental health committee and asked if they could join now.

Penny Lavigne informed him that NLMCC members named their representatives around 2 years ago. However, if UNE would like to have a member join the committee, that would be welcomed.

Gail Johnson acknowledged that there is still work to be done and it is an ongoing process. We are trying to implement various things and we will continue this work as what works for one does not always work for others. We have to find different ways to address the different issues. We will work collaboratively.

Luc Pomerleau asked to share what is available for managers in regards to the DTA training. He asked if a list of who took the training was available as their representatives are educating managers on DTA and he mentioned that telework was being denied for those working with protected documents.

2. Cliff Groen agreed to follow up with Crystal Warner to better understand the unions’ question and to provide response to union once he has reviewed the information they provided.

Follow-up has since been actioned. A meeting took place on June 4, 2018 with the Union of National Employees (UNE) and the Canada Employment and Immigration Union (CEIU).

3. Luc Pomerleau requested that Penny Lavigne share the DTA training materials for managers with the union.

3.5 Update on the Diversity and Employment Equity Action Plan (Rawan El-Komos)

As agreed to in the opening remarks, this item was moved up to 3.1

Rawan El-Komos did not have new statistics to share but mentioned that they are working on Q4 data now, which would be available in the next few weeks and will be shared with this committee.

Rawan El-Komos informed the committee of new Diversity Champions. The new Diversity Co-Champions are Gary Robertson and Marie-Flore Baptiste. The new Indigenous Perspectives Champions are Sylvie Bérubé and Peter Simeoni. She indicated that for the first time they have introduced Employee Network Champions to support and advocate on behalf of the various networks. Brenda Baxter is the Champion for the Pride Network and the Visible Minority Network and Jacqueline Zuk is the Champion for the Employees with Disabilities Network.

As mentioned at the last meeting they are changing nomenclature from Diversity and Employment Equity to Diversity and Inclusion. Although this seems minor it is a cultural nudge to think more broadly. They are currently working with the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer (OCHRO) to clearly define parameters on how they can share data and self-identification information while respecting the Employment Equity Act and Privacy Act. They are also working with them to drill down further in our stats. They currently receive aggregate data for example for Indigenous Peoples but a breakdown by First Nations, Inuit and Métis would be beneficial to establish realistic and relevant strategies. She indicated that this is true for the Visible Minority group as well.

Rawan El-Komos reaffirmed that last year they introduced the concept of a budget to support the employee networks and they are doing that again this year. A $250K budget is earmarked for the employee networks and it is within her budget. She reported that they continue to advance and work with communities and the National Indigenous Organization and to participate in targeted events and career fairs for the Indigenous Recruitment, Retention and Advancement file.

She also reminded the committee that they had created a working group comprised of Human Resources Services Branch, Indigenous Affairs Directorate, Indigenous Employees' Circle (IEC), and Public Affairs and Stakeholder Relations Branch to articulate the Deputy Minister’s vision and mandate concerning Indigenous Reconciliation. They are now expanding this to include branches and regions to ensure the departmental workplan is reflective of all the great work happening across the department. She confirmed that the first kick off meeting is scheduled for April 17, 2018.

Work is also underway to develop an Elders Protocol to ensure consistency on how we are engaging Elders and to do so in a way that respects the various indigenous cultures and traditions. She updated the members in regards to employees with disabilities. They are gearing up for the Innovation Fair that happens during accessibility week in May. They are getting ready to send out a call letter regarding the Youth Accessibility Summer Employment Opportunity Program. Additionally, they are working on a presentation to senior management to facilitate the placement of four (4) to six (6) persons with intellectual disabilities through Live Work Play Program. This would be a six (6) to twelve (12) month pilot.

In regards to visible minorities, she updated the members indicating that the Labour Program currently has a network and this will be expanded department-wide with a target launch date in June. This launch would include an arm chair discussion. She also mentioned that Gary Robertson and Marie-Flore Baptiste kicked off their Diversity Champion roles in February, which was Black History Month and they organized an event on February 28, 2018 which was well attended, well received and deemed to be a resounding success.

She provided information to the members in regards to the Pride Network. She indicated that they wanted to work on an integrated website to support employees going through the transgender process and their managers. The Network has not been able to move this forward so a resource has been allocated within the team to play a more active leadership role on this file. The network continues to train ambassadors in support of the Positive Space Initiative. To date four hundred (400) ambassadors have been trained and training will continue next year.

Sebastian Rodrigues repeated his desire for Diversity and Inclusion to be a standing agenda item and for it to be allocated enough time to engage in a dialogue. He voiced his concern around sharing of personal information and he felt that data is sufficient enough to share. He raised the importance of on-going monitoring and tracking to make sure we continue to improve. He also mentioned the need to actively support the Pride Network and all other networks as they do not have the capacity to do this on their own.

Rawan El-Komos confirmed that she is happy to present to the committee at any time and reassured that under no circumstance would they share data that should not be shared. The idea is to provide as much information as we legally can to managers to enable concrete action so we can address some of the systemic gaps. They will be doing a year-in review analysis in June 2018 and look at data holistically for the year and suggest activities and recommendations accordingly.

3.2 Update on the Phoenix Pay System (Gail Johnson)

Gail Johnson provided the committee with an update in regards to the number of employee pay problems in the department. Eighteen thousand two hundred ninety (18,290) ESDC active employees or seventy three percent (73%) have open cases over thirty (30) days old with the Public Service Pay Centre (PSPC). This compares to seventy-two percent (72%), up from seventy-one percent (71%) of all one hundred thirty seven thousand seven hundred forty-four (137,744) employees served by the PSPC. Departments not serviced by the Pay Centre are reporting only nineteen percent (19%), down from twenty percent (20%) of employees with open cases over thirty (30) days in duration. For ESDC, this represents an increase of two hundred thirty nine (239) employees from the last pay period; and an increase of one thousand five hundred twenty-five (1,525) employees for all others served by PSPC. Actings, change in employment, overpayments and terminations continue to be the highest reported issues.

Gail Johnson informed the committee that ESDC has hired sixteen (16) compensation advisors and they are continuing their efforts to recruit more. This is in addition to the eighteen (18) pay liaison officers. To date, the ESDC compensation advisors have been assigned one thousand ninety-two (1092) cases and have resolved seven hundred and five (705) cases, or sixty-five percent (65%). She clarified that while addressing these cases, our compensation advisors are taking a “whole employee” approach and are resolving all outstanding pay issues to the extent possible. To date over six thousand two hundred (6,200) emergency salary advances and priority payments have been issued totaling over $8.8M. She confirmed that the new mandatory training for employees and managers continues to be rolled out; as of April 9, 2018, seventy-three percent (73%) of employees and seventy-nine percent (79%) of managers have completed the training.

Jim McDonald asked if there is a contact person employees can communicate with for exceptional situations.

Gail Johnson confirmed that the contact person is Tammy Popel and her contact information was shared with the committee members.

Fabienne Jean-François brought up the issue that employees do not have access to their leave balances and these balances will not be available before April 19, 2018 but the Collective Agreement requires them to submit leave before April 15, 2018. She asked if this could be looked into.

Gail Johnson confirmed that this would be looked at.

Dany Richard asked how long the training for managers and employees is and why we are not just making sure the training is done immediately.

Gail Johnson confirmed that the employee training is approximately two (2) hours and the managers training is an additional hour. She also mentioned that they send dashboards and Marie-Claude Pelletier was asked to get a strategy in place.

Eddy Bourque requested if the dashboards could be shared. He then referred to the sixteen (16) compensation advisors that are in Winnipeg and Montreal and asked if they were looking into outside locations.

Gail Johnson confirmed that the dashboards can be shared. She also indicated that they are looking at where they can recruit. They are exploring other venues and are trying to hire more but because of the range of circumstances, everyone is trying to recruit. She noted that there is still a model in place with Miramichi and things that we need to work out. They are looking to hire new people who do not have experience but would build up the required skillset. She assured the committee that the DM has been very clear on this and has requested that we hire as many as we can.

3.3 Passport Harmonization Update (Evelyne Power)

Evelyne Power noted that for Service Management Structural Model, at the last HRUMCC, we mentioned that discussions with UNE would be undertaken with respect to Article 18.07. The UNE provided feedback on the PM-01 Passport Officer (PPTO) job description which has been reviewed by Citizen Services Branch (CSB). A follow up meeting is being scheduled by Labour Relations.

Evelyne Power informed members that the first CSB discussion on harmonization elements with UNE and CEIU was held on April 4, 2018 and updates were provided on: weekend duty, assisting clients with disabilities, funding the transition in passport volumes, discussion on the in-person protocol to deal with abusive clients which will build on the call centre protocol being developed.

Finally, UNE said they wish to be included in the national call centre protocol. In regards to connectivity, Evelyne Power mentioned the GroupWise to Outlook migration, for which all testing on the Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada side is now complete and the live testing of the migration is planned for mid to late April.

3.4 Update of ESDC Learning Policy (Dominic Gonthier)

Dominic Gonthier informed the committee about the soft launch of policy suite, including Re-imbursement of Tuition (ROT) and mandatory training guidelines. She requested that the members look into these documents and provide her with comments and suggestions. It was agreed that this will be done secretarially. The ESDC Learning Policy suite will be officially launched in June.

3.5 Update on Departmental Telework Directive (Guy Cyr)

Guy Cyr indicated that the Telework Directive is being reviewed and a meeting with the union will be organized to discuss the directive and get their feedback. An email will be sent to them with the relevant documentation to start the discussions.

Fabienne Jean-François asked what level of delegation could approve DTA telework situations.

Guy Cyr confirmed that a Director, level three (3) could approve and the delegation was up to date.

Dany Richard asked if any statistics were available in regards to the number of employees who currently have telework arrangements.

Guy Cyr informed Dany Richards that no statistics are available however; managers must now enter these arrangements in to PeopleSoft.

Jim McDonald suggested that the consultation meetings be held with both the managers and the unions in the same room.

Guy Cyr agreed this may be done but for now, Human Resources need to consult with management to determine scope.

4. Rawan El-Komos to provide regional statistics to committee members.

5. ESDC will review what can be done in the future regarding employees needing to make leave requests when balances are frozen at the start of the fiscal year.

6. Eddy Bourque requested that the Phoenix dashboard regarding training completion be shared.

4.1 Round Table and Closing Remarks (Crystal Warner and Gail Johnson)

Crystal Warner and Gail Johnson thanked the members and guests for attending the meeting